ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3

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Malachi

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Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #200 on: January 27, 2014, 09:03:43 PM »
Mike - Space Wolves have no flyer.  Also, yeah I know all about an Aegis Line, I have one; but I would hardly call it "great" anti-air.  Taking out a Heldrake with a Quad Gun is not good odds.

I get your point about game balance and "this army strength, that army weakness" stuff, and the "supposed to be this way."  But I would also add that Allies, just as much as psykers and flyers, are "supposed" to be in the 6th edition game, as much as all those other elements.

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Alex1

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Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #201 on: January 27, 2014, 09:36:25 PM »
Alex I can meet you there for a game right at 6 if that works for you.

Sounds good, i'll see you then!

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Kuderewko

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Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #202 on: January 27, 2014, 09:41:43 PM »
I am also going to be down at the store Thursday if any one wants to try and get a game in. I am free pretty much any time.

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Mike.L

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Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #203 on: January 27, 2014, 10:03:20 PM »
Mike - Space Wolves have no flyer.  Also, yeah I know all about an Aegis Line, I have one; but I would hardly call it "great" anti-air.  Taking out a Heldrake with a Quad Gun is not good odds.

I get your point about game balance and "this army strength, that army weakness" stuff, and the "supposed to be this way."  But I would also add that Allies, just as much as psykers and flyers, are "supposed" to be in the 6th edition game, as much as all those other elements.

true. SW dont get them. (i thought they did, untill i double checked)

however SW also get thunderwolve calvary - one of the best "tank" units in the game, awsome psychic ability, including JOTWW, on top of most other space marine toys like land raiders, dreads, and so on. not to mention the split fire rule for long fangs. the space wolves have many very very good options. just perhaps not direct anti air. however you can still snap fire on them, and while the aegis line quad gun is an initial option, there is also the new fortifications like the firestorm redoubt and so on.

dont get me wrong, im not dissing on allies, just kind of trying to point out that a tourney that says "no allies" dosent screw people up the bum in list design. slightly tougher? maybe. getting rid of crazy power builds? heck yea. i mean read the forums. 90% of the sick stupid win at all cost combos out there are now based on using the allies system. those are fun to play against maybe once, perhaps twice. i mean, as tau there is a prime example. farsight + o'vesa+ allied tau buff commander and a enclave riptide. unit has 2 riptides, and 2 commanders in it. everything ignores cover, is twin linked, one of them rerolls nova checks. the unit can have monster/tank hunter at will. so its rerolling hits, rerolling wounds/pens, can pretty much ignore gets hot, and its got thrust moves, and 2+ armor on t6 majority. all alongside a 2+/3++ save. i dont intend to take this, (perhaps a very toned down variant, minus the SC) but thats ONE of many "deathstars" that work because of allies, and imho make the game not fun to play with. the eldar jetseer council is another one. allied with DE (wtf?) baron you get some crazy abilities and a unit thats near impossible to kill. i can go on and on, but i wont.

can one argue that a tournament is THE place to bring said builds? perhaps. and i would agree. often times its prize money, and if you cant be highly competetive at a tournament then where can you? - merly saying that for a "quick, fun, and simple one" such as the PGX was (i think) trying to do, something like a 1k no allies might be one possible route to go. heck, a kill team one would work too. - all in the interest of being a sort of "intro" to the gaming group and tournament style. but there are very diffiernt kinds of tournaments.

also - for maeson expanding on my other idea, lumping all the criteria into one thing can also mean some people dont enjoy the event. not everyone wants to win it all. some come to show off a new army they just spent tons of time converting and painting, others go for the social aspect, some to test out new armies, and so on. taking the chance away for a seperate best painter, or other like award makes those people somewhat left out. - and yes there should 100% be a guy or guys around who are "refs" or judges that can look at something and say, yup no cover, or sorry you cant see that, and so on. the game is so dynamic and scenarios arise often that dont easily fall into rulebook clarification. sometimes a 3rd party is needed. and no shame or harm comes from making use of that. i will often check with such a 3rd party even to my own disadvantage, simply because i dont want to make the call on something that could affect the game.

as for thursday if i make it down, it will be for around 6. i should also be free on saturday for the 1000 pt level. (and no, i dont think ill be taking crazy allies at this level. maybe 1500) ;)

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Malachi

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Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #204 on: January 27, 2014, 10:43:50 PM »
however SW also get thunderwolve calvary - one of the best "tank" units in the game, awsome psychic ability, including JOTWW, on top of most other space marine toys like land raiders, dreads, and so on. not to mention the split fire rule for long fangs. the space wolves have many very very good options. just perhaps not direct anti air. however you can still snap fire on them, and while the aegis line quad gun is an initial option, there is also the new fortifications like the firestorm redoubt and so on.
Ehhhh, Thundercav can't "tank" much of anything anymore.  T5 with a 3+ and 2 Wounds isn't that great nowadays, all the MC's can Smash and ID them, plus Tau (how hard is it for Tau to cause 2 unsaved Wounds at T5 with a 3+?) and Eldar (Bladestorm rending, and Wave Serpents) putting out a stupid amount of firepower.  Thundercav are okay - I'm taking them mostly because I have the models painted, and I think they look cool - but they're an elite assault unit that can't actually take out most other armies elite assault units.

You mention the Firestorm fort - I've looked at it, it's okay (albeit expensive).  But for that to be part of the discussion we're not assume said theoretical tournament is allowing the "extra" fortifications not in the main rulebook (and yet no allies).  Daemons can do a Screamstar with no allies.  I bet some would say that Eldar and/or Tau are "broken" even without Allies.

Anyway, we can go round and round on this... it's a matter of opinions.  Bottom line is: there's a lot of stuff in 6th that can make disgusting builds, allies or no, and it's not going to be easily fixed.  As with all options its going to be up to the individual player to choose whether or not they are taking a list "just to win" or for more holistic reasons.

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Yolanka

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Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #205 on: January 27, 2014, 11:40:49 PM »
I do agree that there should typically be more than one way to win in a tournament with prize support etc., but that wasn't really the main intent of the PGX tournament.  It was to get together and have a bunch of quick games for fun, and to take a stab at trying something new.  I definitely learned a lot from peoples' opinions as well as just what I saw.  Tyranids and Chaos like having HQ choices more than most armies, and even under the restrictions Riptides made a big showing - I don't think they died in any of their games for either player that used them - I could be wrong on this but I didn't see it happen.  But then you realize that Tyler won with what I thought was one of the armies most hindered by the restrictions - and by defeating BOTH Tau players!

Anyway, I'm glad everyone had fun, I know I did even though I didn't get to actually play.  I'll be at the store Thursday too - playing Mark at 5:30.  If anyone's still around after that whom I haven't played and doesn't have an opponent lined up already, I'd be down for another afterwards.  I've got two 1k lists ready for next month, just debating if I want to give in and take an aegis line for all the inevitable flyers I'll be facing.  Space Wolves need more AA!

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Lareina

Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #206 on: January 28, 2014, 02:26:33 PM »
Heads up people, there is a Magic prerelease this weekend, Saturday will be extremely full, there -might- be room on Sunday, but chances are extremely slim. there will be no space in the store.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 12:14:32 PM by Lareina »

Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #207 on: January 29, 2014, 03:44:50 PM »
I'm going to be down Thursday roughly 4 o'clock if anyone wants to fight my space wolf's

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Alex1

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Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #208 on: January 29, 2014, 09:03:55 PM »
Foleydafrog, that time works well for me. See you then!

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ChadBoudreau

Re: ComicReaders Downtown - Warhammer 40k Escalation League - Season 3
« Reply #209 on: January 29, 2014, 10:36:49 PM »
There will be no space available this Saturday or Sunday at ComicReaders because of Magic pre-release.