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Welcome => Leagues => Archive of Leagues => Topic started by: RobertP on November 03, 2013, 11:44:45 PM

Title: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on November 03, 2013, 11:44:45 PM
General overview:  Warhammer is the table top game of fantasy battles using miniature models players have built and painted.  To support the game we are starting our second Warhmmer Fantasy ladder league.  Anyone that might be interested in joining it is welcome to do so.  Players accumulate points by playing the games or can use challenges to advance themselves to the top of the ‘ladder’. A small $5 fee per player will be collected for prizes.  The league will run for 3 months with a month for finals.  This league is run independent of recent ComicReaders Warhammer Fantasy escalation leagues and all former rules.  However, this league is still supported by ComicReaders but way of gift certificates and gaming space.  Thanks ComicReaders!

Getting Started:
The official sign up period will be now until Nov 30.  Please join the league at any time by posting your name and the army that you wish to use.  There is a minimal charge of $5 and this will go to prizes at the end of the league.  ComicReaders is collecting the league fees so please drop off your money there.  Note that it must be cash, not debit or check or anything like that. 

Players must choose one army to play for the duration of the ladder league unless playing in a special event (special event details below).  Players can change army lists and game point values from game to game.  When both sides agree, players may also choose to play scenarios from the book, special scenarios from the big book, 3+ player mega-battle, a siege, etc.  It is suggested that players try to build up to, and play games at the 2500pt using the basic rulebook’s army composition. 

Location: Games can be played at any location.  ComicReaders Downtown has offered up room in their store.  Space is generally available during store hours with the exception of Friday evening and Saturday.  Call in advance to book a spot if you’re playing at the store during those times.  Players earn +2 bonus points per game played in this location.

Point structure:
League points are earned by playing games.  "Victory points" are gained for playing against league players.  Victory Points = A crushing victory yields 8-2, victory 6-3 and a tie 4-4.  The players can also earn bonus point by: playing a fully painted army +1, ladder challenge battle +1, or playing at ComicReaders Downtown +2.  Players will receive a cumulative -1 point for each game that they play the same person to a minimum of 2.  Points accumulate with the first and second highest point scores determine who will make it to the playoffs.  Special Event:  We will try to plan one special event per league.  Currently this special event is unplanned.  When playing in the special event players receive a bonus of 2pts for participating, plus any additional victory/bonus points they earn.  Players may play any army that they choose for this special event and still receive credit as if they were playing their ladder league army.

In order to further promote the spirit of increased game play, players that play matches involving non league members will still benefit from game count and will receive 2 points for the league.  In addition, players that command a different army from their chosen army will also get 2 points for each game played. 

THE LADDER:
   The ladders system was invented to by Scott Radom and used by Ravaging Hordes in Saskatoon.  It seems to work so we will borrow it.  It is designed to level the playing field between players that can get lots of games in and gamers that can’t.  Here is how it works:  Once per month a player can issue a challenge to someone up to three positions higher on the ladder.  If the challenge is successfully won by the challenger, the player would then move to their spot.  The player that accepted the challenge, but lost, would move down one spot.  In the special case that the first place person was challenged and lost, they will move down 2 spots.  In addition, each person has a single ‘wild card’ challenge that they can use to challenge anyone above them in the standings regardless of position.  Please make it clear to both players that a ladder challenge has been issued by posting it online and posting it in advance of the game!  The challenge can be played at any agreed point value and in any location.  Inactive players fall to the bottom of the ladder any month they do not play at least one game (Dec/Jan/Feb).

League Final:
The top two players on the ladder and the top two in points makes it into the semifinals.  If player(s) are at the top of both the ladder and Points sides of the league, players on the ladder will be bumped into the semifinal games. Semifinals: The top ladder will play the second place in points.  The top points will play the second place on the ladder.  Semi finals must be played between March 1-20.  Finals: The winners of the semifinal games will playoff for the league winner.  The final game will be held between March 21-31 - or before if players agree.  Games will be played at 2500pts unless there are circumstances that you can't play at that point level.  If any games end in a draw the player with the most games played will be declared the victor. 

Prizes:  ComicReaders will be matching dollar for dollar your league fees.  This will be returned back in the form of a gift certificate for anything in their store.  All league fees are returned back to the league players.  First place will get $40 gift card at ComicReaders.  Second place will get $30.  We will make a random draw for the remaining money with the players that didn't claim a prize.  This random draw will be capped at $30.  A second draw will occur if there is money left in the pool. 

Reporting All battles need to be reported in this forum so that I can keep track and up-to-date.  Remember to count all the "victory points" as we have to distinguish between crushing victory or just victory.  Also take note if people's armies are painted (typically 3 different colours, each model).  The league is self policing so play fair and report accurately.  Please report battles promptly, thanks!

Other than that everyone just needs to have fun and play fair!

A big thanks to ComicReaders for their help with supplying gift certificates, gaming room and collection of the league fees.


Edited:  Distinguished between Victory points and bonus points.
Edited:  Dec 20 - updated 'League Final' and 'Prizes'
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on November 03, 2013, 11:45:16 PM
Questions and Answers:

Q) I am at the top of the ladder and someone below me has challenged me.  What incentive is there for me to play them?
A) There are several reason why you want to accept a challenge.  They are all of these reasons at the same time:
- for league points, you will get an extra bonus point for playing a ladder challenge.
- Ladder challenges places more on the line and can create more interest and hype (from yourself or others that might want to watch!)
- self policing; it could be seen as poor sportsmanship to intentionally duck challenges.  Nobody wants to be "that guy".

Q) I have 600pts and the guy challenging me has 14.  I don't want to lose all my points!
A) You don't lose your points in a challenge, only the position you are on the ladder.  In this case you have only the ladder position to lose but gain the extra points.

Q) Can you explain the point system with an example?
A) Robert and Justin have a game and they tie.  They are both in the league but Robert was playing his non-league Empire, painted army.  Robert would earn no victory points for the tie because it was his non-league army.  However, he would pick up 2pts for playing and +1pts for painted bonus.  Justin would get 4pts for the tie because it was against Robert a league player.   
A2) If Justin had instead played Bruce (a non league player), and if Justin had tied that game, he would have got 2pts (and not the 4 tie "victory points").  Justin is still eligible to gain additional points for playing with a painted army and/or playing at ComicReaders.   
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on November 03, 2013, 11:46:42 PM
The Ladder 
1) Allan Luesink (Allan Luesink) - High Elves                   
2) Justin Gallaghar (Gallaghar) - Orcs and some goblins 
3) Maeson (Prince of Arnheim) - Dark Elves                   
4) Robert Possberg (robertp) - Beastmen                       
5) Don Matwe (squalie) - High Elves                               
6) Devin B (Devinb) - Warriors of Choas
7) Chris Smith (Yolanka) - Vampire Counts
8) Kyle Williams (Kyle_Williams) - Dark Elves

Ladder movement:
Dec 13 - Maeson's challenge successful. Maeson moves from 6th to 3rd.  Robert (lost) drops to 4th - Meason's Dec challenge
Dec 15 - Kyle challenge unsuccessful.  Maeson/Kyle maintain position - Kyle's Wildcard challenge
Jan 25 - Allan challenge successful.  Allan moves from 2nd to 1st.  Justin (lost) drops to 2nd - Allan Jan challenge
Mar 28 - Robert challenged unsuccessful.  Maeson/Robert maintain positino - Robert's Feb challenge

Games played:
Nov 15 - Rob won massacre, painted (9).  Justin loss massacre, unpainted (2)
Dec 5 - Kyle won regular, unpainted, in store (8).  Robert lost, painted, in store (6)
Dec 13 - Maeson regular victory, painted, challenge (8).  Robert loss, painted, challenge (5)
Dec 13 - Kyle won regular, unpainted (6).  Chris lost, unpainted (3)
Dec 14 - Squalie played 3 games vs non-leauge members, (2 reg loss, 1 massacre loss), all three painted (9)
Dec 15 - Maeson won regular, painted, challenge (8).  Kyle lost regular, challenge (4)
Dec 21 - Allan won regular, painted (7).  Maeson lost, painted (4)
Dec 21 - Allan won massacre, painted (9).  Devin massacre loss, unpainted (2)
Dec 22 - Maeson won massacre, painted (9).  Justin massacre loss, unpainted (2)
Jan 2 - Maeson won massacre vs non-league player Nathan, painted (3).
Jan 15 - Meason won massacre, painted, store (11). Devin massacre loss, unpainted, store (4)
Jan 25 - Robert two games vs non-league players (Justin/Sean), painted, special event (8)
Jan 25 - Don two games vs non-league players (Justin/Sean), painted, special event (8)
Jan 25 - Maeson special event (2)
Jan 25 - Allan regular victory, painted, ladder challenge (8). Justin reg loss, painted, ladder challenge (5)
Feb 15 - Don's games day: Don played 9 games, 9xpainted (27).  Record (4xMW, 1Reg, 1Draw, 3xML)
Feb 22 - Maeson won mass, painted, -1 played same person (8).  Allan/Robert, minimum 2pts, +1 painted each (3).*
(*NOTE: Allan and Robert both played Maeson for the second time (-1 point).  Collectively they lost, earning 2pts each.  The minimum "Victory Points" is 2 so they earn the minimum.  Allan and Robert are both painted and still earn the "Bonus points" of +1.)
Feb 22 - Maeson regular victory, painted, -1 played same person (6).  Justin regular loss, non painted, -1 played same person (2). 
Feb 28 - Maeson won mass, painted, -2 played same person three times, challenge (8).  Robert, min 2pt, painted, challenge (4). 
** See link below with all the point totals and games played (updated to the end of Jan).
March 15 - Semi Finals - Justin (2nd place ladder) upsets Maeson (1st place points)
March 22 - Semi Finals - Allan (1st place ladder) crushing victory over Don (2nd place points)
March 30 - Don was the Random Draw winner! - $10 ComicReader Giftcertificate
TBA - Finals - Allan vs Justin

See how the your spot on the league was determined:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkm9xQVJeC4

Edit:
Dec 2 - created ladder, updated games played list
Dec 7 - updated "games played"
Dec 14 - updated "games played"
Dec 20 - updated all areas and "games played" section.  Added the PDF (below) with full Point stats of the games played
Jan 8 - updated the "games played" list.  Updated the PDF attachment (see below) with full point stats. 
Feb 5 - corrected Maeson's Win/Loss ratio on the PDF. Updated ladder moves (Allan takes 1st and Justin drops to 2nd)
Feb 5 - updated "games played" list.  Uploaded Jan PDF attachment (see below) with full point stats.
Feb 15 - updated "games played" list.
Feb 26 - updated "games played" list. Added a "mid-Fed" points updated list.
Feb 28 - updated "games played" list, ladder, and posted the point results and attached the PDF for these results.
March 31 - updated "games played" list with semi finals.  Added draw winner.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on November 03, 2013, 11:47:25 PM
My name is Robert Possberg and I will be playing BEASTMEN for this winter league!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on November 04, 2013, 06:45:08 AM
My name is Don Matwe and I will play High Elves!

  Rob Possberg should be applauded as this format, as written, is pretty much perfect!  Very well done Possberg, I very much look forward to playing in this league. 

  Awesome!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on November 04, 2013, 10:44:39 AM
My name is Allan Luesink and I, too, will play High Elves.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on November 04, 2013, 03:37:29 PM
I think my name is Maeson, I think I will be playing Dark Elves since there will be a few High Elf players tip toeing around :neener
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: ChadBoudreau on November 05, 2013, 06:36:22 AM
Quote
My name is Allan Luesink and I, too, will play High Elves.

I don't mean to hijack the post, but this is a friendly reminder for Allan that he still has a gift card at ComicReaders Downtown. It's on file so just ask the staff for it next time you're in.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on November 05, 2013, 09:24:49 AM
Thanks for that reminder, Chad.  I'll try and get down this week and use that up (just need to decide what paint colours I need).
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on November 08, 2013, 07:42:53 AM
Hi this is Justin Gallagher and I would like to bring Zorbug Best Basha's (O&G) to the league.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Yolanka on November 12, 2013, 09:31:31 AM
Hi this is Chris Smith and I'll be playing my vampire counts!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: DevinB on November 13, 2013, 01:35:23 AM
Hey, this is Devin and I intend to play my Warriors of Chaos.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on November 17, 2013, 09:11:08 PM
Hi everyone, just wanting to put up a place holder post saying that Rob and I played a game on Friday night. We played the scenario The dark monoliths of Zhugozar. It was a good battle and rob won. Will update this post tomorrow with some more details.

Justin
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on November 18, 2013, 09:24:41 PM
Hi, this is Kyle Williams and I will be playing Dark Elves.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on November 18, 2013, 09:34:13 PM
Hey Kyle, welcome to the group!  Looking forward to meeting you. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on November 19, 2013, 09:43:33 PM
Hey, is there a group of people that want to get together for some games on Nov 30?  Frag is holding their monthly gaming day.  It is on Nov 30 between noon and 1100pm.  It is held at Northeast Community Centre.  I can likely make it but I could only go a bit later in the night - like after 8:30pm.  I was talking about this with Don so I am hoping that he is willing to see this through.  I am hoping that there is at least a handful of guys willing to go.  What is the interest?

For those that haven't been there The Frag group usually runs a canteen and it has lots of space.  The regular gamers there are usually playing board games but there is sometimes other table top games or RPG.  The parking and the door into the basement is to the back side of the building.

This is open to anyone, not just league members,... Justin I am looking at you!

Just a reminder that games played before the start of Dec still count for league points if your in the league! 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on November 19, 2013, 10:02:02 PM
Gotta work sorry Ron and Don!!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Yolanka on November 20, 2013, 08:58:57 AM
Sounds like it'd be fun but Lareina and I already have plans for the 30th.  Thanks for posting the info though, hopefully we can make it to the next one!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on November 20, 2013, 02:17:57 PM
I can be there. Sounds like a plan to me!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on November 20, 2013, 06:00:30 PM
Hm.  My daughter may be changing her visit from the Dec 7th to Nov 30th.  That weekend may be a wash.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on November 22, 2013, 06:58:37 AM
Sounds like Nov 30 is a no-go.  We will have to try again to set something up in the future. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on November 29, 2013, 08:43:31 PM
I am also available this week and weekend, let me know if anyone is up for a match.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on November 30, 2013, 12:11:40 PM
I am available and looking for some games Monday-Thursday, Dec 2-5.  Unfortunately, I am only free during the day.  I am also free Thursday-Friday (Dec12-13) also during the day.  Anyone else available?

@Klye:  I am no longer around this weekend.  Allan posted, a few weeks ago, that he would be available today if you want to set somehting up with him.

Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 03, 2013, 12:21:01 PM
Hey guys how are things been on the gaming front?  Maeson and I have been trying to schedule a game over the last two day but things hasn’t been working out on my end.  I was wondering if people would like to get something going on Thursday this week, Dec 5?  I was thinking that if there was enough interest we can get a few 1250pt games going, start around 5pm and go to 9 at ComicReaders.  Are you free?
 
Also wanted to update you as to what I have been doing lately... I updated my Beastmen army with a new purchase of a Ghorgon from ComicReaders.  At a point cost of 275pt and no armor save this guy is generally accepted as a point sink... but I wanted to get in on the table regardless.  A Ghorgon comes with about 5 attacks and “bloodgreed” which adds a Frenzy attack each time he wins a combat.  The attacks stack until he has 10A.  The ghorgon can forgo all these normal attacks to make one special killing blow attack to a single model.  The killing blow is good on a 4+, but wards can still be taken.  If successful the model is "swallowed hole" and the ghorgon regains some wounds.  The ghorgon also comes with stubborn and 10 Leadership... he may have some other abilities but this is what I can remember off the top of my head.   I am currently starting to paint the ghorgon up. See pictures. 

I also had the fortunate circumstance of meeting Decker_cky from the Beastmen forum.  I meet him in Saskatoon a weekend or two ago.  He sold me his Warhammer fortress.  This fortress came painted but it lacked siege equipment.  Cant have a fortress without a siege equipment!  I have made some two man ladders from balsa wood.  (see picture, but note not completed work) I also wanted some siege towers and rams.  At $60 a tower and $50 a battering ram this project could easily have cost me $200!!  So I was thinking of scratch building those too.  However, I found a website that provided what looked like a descent paper siege tower and battering ram.  For $6 I purchased the printout and for another $10 purchased cardstock paper to print it out on (also needed colour ink for my printer - $30).  I am really hoping that I have a decent quality tower and ram for cheaper and faster build then wood.  The towers look really cool online so I hope they turn out ok.  I will provide some links so that you can check this out too.  ALSO this website provided other cardstock terrain: blacksmith, stable, windmill, etc.  I was wondering if anyone has purchased stuff from them and how it turned out.   I think that this stuff is actually more for RPG and does have that feel so I don’t blame anyone for not having this!  The website is Fat Dragon, see link.  Siege rules in our current 8th edition are nonexistent but I found a rule set from the limited print book: Blood in the Badlands by GW.  Looks really interesting so I am looking forward to getting this on the table!

Utube about the siege tower build: (copy and paste)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8XTOKuMo2c

Fat Dragon Terrain, RPG stuff:   http://www.fatdragongames.com/fdgfiles/ 

Lastly, I created the ladder positioning and provided a video to confirm fairness!  It was my first Utube video so check it on page 1 of this forum!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 04, 2013, 08:08:39 AM
Update: Kyle PM'd me and said he can likely meet me at Readers tomorrow.  Justin can't make it.  Don is out of town for work.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on December 05, 2013, 10:41:05 PM
Just had an excellent match against Robert's beastmen at comic readers. It was a regular victory for myself, my army was unpainted, Rob's was painted.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on December 06, 2013, 09:26:54 PM
Battle report?!  :popcorn
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 07, 2013, 06:01:35 AM
That is a good idea Squalie!  Here is the battle report you requested:

Kyle and I meet for the first time and I am so glad to have meet him.  He is an awesome guy and a great opponent.  He had brought the Dark Elves and the rumors surrounding this new army book is that it is a top notch army.  I brought the best Beastmen list that I could think of that also included my new (fully painted, unlike pic above) ghorgon.  I even put in a number of elf killing chariots!  Of course, Kyle's list was new to him so I thought I might be able to level the table or even steal the advantage.   

Kyle's list slightly surprised me as it didn't include much of the shooting I was accustom to seeing from other armies.  No reaper bolt throwers... but did have two units of repeater crossbowelves.  He also included a large unit of Cold one Knights, Executioners, steadfast Corsairs, a hydra, Bloodwrack shrine, and 5 doomfire warlocks.  The army was lead by a Cold One riding Dreadlord and included two mages.  My list had gors and Beastigors in large 40 horde herds, chariots, ungor raiders, 3 razorgors, THE GHORGON, Beastlord and Wargor BSB and two Shamans. 

Kyle had first turn.  He advanced his troops and wrecked faced during the first two magic phases.  The first turn of magic he lowered my weapon skill of my Bestigors to 1... I had thought no big deal he is just making it unwise for me to charge with them this turn. But then he caste a second spell that tested on their WS!  Oops, I just lost 18 Beastigors...  The second magic phase, he caste a vortex that similarly cooked my gor herd.

In my second turn, I charged!  The bestigors with Beastlord hit the Executioners that where defending a wall.  The Ghorgon, a chariot and the flanking unit of gors hit his corsairs (also defended against the same wall).  This created the main battle area.  Over the next few turns we went back and forth, putting magic augments on our units to try to win the combats... then promptly forgetting about those augments when it was time to apply their result!  The end result saw my Beastlord survive by the skin of his 5+ ward save (at least twice) and hold the line due to the 'crown of command'.  The Beastlord was quadruple lucky when the Cold One Knights decided to become Stupid right before a charge and the hydra also got into their way.  The beastlord was the sole survivor of the Great Bestigor-Exacultioner battle.  In the other main battle the corsairs broke, largely due to Ghorgon rolling six for thunderstomp in the first turn.  However the corsairs rallied to have another go at the ghorgon/chariot combo in a later turn.  The other noteworthy thing to happen... the gors where destroyed by the warlocks in the magic phase.  In one turn, I lost 15 gor due to the DE lore attribute (that creates D6 S1 hits) and the direct damage spell.  Since the Corsairs didn’t register a wound on the gors (due large by forgetting their +1S bonus) the entire 40 beast unit was destroyed with two spells!

Kyle was a great opponent and I am looking forward to having a game with him agian.  I heard that his next game is vs Allan on Saturday.  Good luck Allan!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on December 07, 2013, 09:03:31 AM
Rob, what could you have done differently?  It reads like he had some pretty good magic phases, but did you get the feeling like it's ALWAYS going to be like that against DE's?  Did you feel the Crown of Command helped a lot or was it a fluke?  How was the Ghorgon?  Would 2 have been better?  Would Razorgor Chariots have helped?

  I'm asking as I'm putting together a "come all" Beastmen list and am curious as to what the better "general use" units may be.

**edit**

  Good to see we have new, cool players like Kyle.  Look forward to having a game with that fellow.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 07, 2013, 09:20:24 PM
What could have I done differently..?

Kyle didn't target the ghorgon with his close combat attacks, he attacked the tuskgor chariot which was easier to wound.  So the ghorgon wasn't attacked and I feel might not have been well tested.  Even though it wasn't targeted it still ended the game with about 4 wounds.  The ghorgon dealt a pile of damage in combat with its attacks increasing each round and it's thunderstomp.  It is clearly the better choice if it gets bogged down into combat.  Two razorgor chariots are nearly the same cost as one ghorgon.  The razorgor chariots deliver impact hits and therefore quite useful vs ASF elves.  Each razorgor chariot has one less T and W then a ghorgon but comes with a +4 armor save.  My feeling is that the razorgor chariots would be more useful.  It is also easier to fit two Razorgor chariots into a list rather then trying to squeeze out 550 points for two ghorgons.  I think the tactic of pairing the ghorgon with core chariots was extremely beneficial... a must when added a ghorgon to the list. 

More hex and augment spells via the Herdstone would have been nice.  (For those that don't know:  The Herdstone gives an extra power dice per shaman within 6" of this Beastman terrain.  Typically Beastmen trick is to load up on 2-3 lvl1 shamans dancing around the herdstone with lvl4 Great Bray Shaman using the power dice).

Kyle got lucky with some of his magic.  However, the new DE Warlocks can caste with nearly no punishment from a miscaste.  So max dicing 1-2 spells each turn likely will not be an uncommon event for the DE player. 

I found that the DE sorceresses in close combat could be very atrocious.  Darn near lost a Beastlord AND a Great Bray Shaman to those buggers. 

I have found the a Beastlord will last multiple rounds of close combat when having the Crown of Command and the 5+ward save.  More times then not his unit of Bestigors will fight to the bitter end.  (This perserves the +1Ld magic banner on the Bestigors too). 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on December 09, 2013, 06:26:42 PM
Anyone up for a game on Saturday or Sunday?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 10, 2013, 05:58:46 AM
I have availability on Friday - more or less at anytime.  Game anyone?

Saturday and Sunday are both bad for me, sorry Kyle.  Did you get that game in with Allan?

Just a reminder to get a game in before the end of the month, if not you loss your spot on the Ladder.  It might be hectic trying to get a game scheduled into the last part of the month due to Christmas and NewYears.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 11, 2013, 10:51:51 PM
Ok there has been a number of PMs about games this Friday.  Since half the league members are involved might as well place it into the forum!  The people that responded: Chris, Kyle, Maeson and me...  We tentatively worked out games (1) Maeson vs Robert and (2) Chris vs Kyle.

I called Chad and ComicReaders is booked up Friday night.  I talked to Chris and he said that he wouldn't mind hosting an event.  He has two tables.  So I am suggesting that we go to Chris's house on Friday night.  Chris and Kyle have to work until 5-5:30 so games have to start after that.  I will suggest that we start at 7pm (Chris said that time works for him).  Now, is there anyone else that wants to join us?  If so, this shouldn't be a problem as we can adjust by playing teams (2vs2) or if odd numbers (2vs1).

If we end up with 4 players what size army do you want to field?  I will suggest that we bring two lists: one at 2500 and a second at 1250.  That way we have a lot of flexibility AND we might be able to have a second shorter game. 

Finally, I want to remind peeps that you may want to consider using your "Dec challenge" for this game.  You may not get a second chance and it will be lost when Jan starts if you don't use it.  This is the only way to advance up the ladder.  Technically, you should post your challenge on this forum before the game - so everyone knows and is prepared that it is a "ladder challenge!"
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on December 11, 2013, 11:17:02 PM
In that case I am ladder challenging Maeson for our game on Sunday.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 12, 2013, 02:10:27 AM
Ok so I am challenging Rob on Friday and accepting Kyles challenge on Sunday when we battle at my house.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 12, 2013, 01:37:10 PM
I will accept Maeson's challenge. 

But that creates a bit of a timing issue because it effects Kyle's Maeson challenge.  If Maeson wins me (likely), Maeson will be jumped into position #3 much higher then his current position and outside of the normal challenge restrictions.  However, I would suggest that if in this case Kyle should still go ahead with the challenge and use his once-a-league Wildcard challenge.  Since this second challenge is happening on Sunday we can discus implications on Friday night.  I will also see how Saskatoon deals with this problem.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Yolanka on December 12, 2013, 01:59:26 PM
Kyle and I are planning on playing 2500 points, but I'll throw together a 1250 list too just in case others end up coming and we end up doing teams or some other potential craziness ensues!  :excited
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on December 12, 2013, 08:51:32 PM
Sorry for the late reply to the PM's but I can not attend this weekend. Next weekend however, I would be interested to get my game in. I know Maeson sent me a PM with interest in getting a game in before the end of the month. I am! Lets see what we can setup for the 20, 21, 22?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on December 14, 2013, 01:53:35 AM
Had a game against Chris on Friday the 13th. I won, unpainted, he lost, unpainted.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 14, 2013, 02:21:06 AM
Had a game against Rob and barely held on to win. Both painted, I had challenged Rob who I believe was in first place so I have now taken over his position at the top but I am facing fellow Dark Elf player Kyle on Sunday so this may change quickly.

Highlights of the Friday the 13th battle include:

The Beastlord who would stands forever!: Rob's Beastlord pretty much wiped out a unit of 14 Witch Elves and a Death Hag by himself while surviving a large number of attacks from them. I had him down to one wound for the last two or three turns but it wasn't enough, I even flanked him with some Corsairs and he survived both units and their many attacks. The Assassin who forever hides was around there too but I forgot about him so he didn't affect the battle. I think he went and tattled on the Beastmen to Malekith who is flying to ye Olde World as you all read this.

Eternal combustion! My cowardly sorceress and sorcerer that were hiding on the Temple of Skulls both miscasted and blew each other up in the same magic phase. It was quite hillarious.

Mauling of the Ghorgon!! This massive beast took a flank charge from my designated monster hunters and survived due to me failing my fear test and not cutting him down in the first round of CC. This in turn setup up a flank charge on my Cold Ones from a nasty Bestigor chariot that turned the tide and saw my Cold Ones and poor Master get wiped out.

Skirmish!!! Rob's right flank saw my one unit of Dark Riders, some Shades, a Razorgor, and some Ungor skimishes fight a mini battle between the four of them but this didn't really affect the main mass of the battle too much. It almost could have been a game of Mordheim being fought over a Watchtower.

Fury of the Dragon. My Dreadlord and his Black Dragon mount really hated on Rob's one unit of many Gors, first I torched them with Noxious Breath, withdrew a little(which resulted in my DL getting charged by the Ghorgon who just as quickly chomped to death by the Black Dragon) and then hit them up with a rear charge with my flying points sink. Unfortunately the Gor's were backed up by a powerfull Shaman that punched Lord Katan in the head and sent him toppling from the saddle. My now very angry Dragon seeked Revenge however, and finished off the BSB, Shaman, and Gors with many nasty stomps as they were trying to hold the battle together for Rob. Dragon's are good, nuff said.

That's all I got.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 14, 2013, 09:15:04 AM
Maeson makes it seem like the game was closer then it was.... Final score 2406 to about 1450.  I was just glad to keep it as close as I did!  I had exactly one model remain... my Beastlord.

Maeson changed his tactics for this game.  I am use to him focusing his efforts on killing all my chaff units and leaving my two hordes (gors and Bestigors alone).  Since Maeson typically dont kill the hordes I thought I could cut some Bestigors from my list to add the Razorgor chariot (Bestigor chariot misnamed above).    Unfortunately he did target hordes with Pit, Whither, a Breather weapon, bolt thrower bolts, etc.  By the time the gors and the Bestigors where in combat they where less then half of what they started with...

The razorgor chariot did well until it was flanked.  But even flanked, it did manage to stick around several combat turns because of it's high number of wounds.  I think it's Toughness 5, 5 Wounds, 4+armour is about as survivable as a T6, 6W, no save ghorgon.  The ghorgon did much better with creating wounds particularly when flanked!  It was an enjoy having them in the same combat. 

Beastlord (Kha'har) had four magic items.  They are common to all armies : Crown of command, charmed shield, 5+ talisman, and always strikes first sword.  The crown kept him in the mix all the time since he survived lossing combat in every round except the one round he had some awesome buffs (Panns pelt and Savage beast of horros).  With the buff he had 7A.  In one round he produced 7 hits and 7 wounds to finish off exactly 7 witch elves. 

The game was kept close because of the mentioned miscasts.  I had never seen two mages die in one round of magic before.  One should have said to the other, "Hey buddy don't do that and stand so close!"

Like many a warhammer game we forgot to apply a number of buffs and hex bonuses.  Oddly I missed several +1S bonuses from either Wildform or from my Beastbanner.  I forgot to use my extra power dice created from the jagged dagger magic item (This may have lead to casting 'Savage Beast of Horros' and created 12A at 8S on that darn dragon - during that turn!)  And, Maeson makes note of the assassin that likely would have killed my Beastlord early in the witch elves combat.  It was a two sided street on forgetting this stuff!  Darn!

Good game, Maeson.

PS- I was in 3rd place so Maeson collects 3rd for the challenge.  I fall down to forth place.  I will try to update ladder and games played later today.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on December 14, 2013, 09:34:07 AM
Maeson got back to me and we are going to play a game next Sunday the 22nd. Looks like those Dark Elves are scary!

Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 14, 2013, 04:26:39 PM
Yeah I am gonna be even dirtier and take a Cauldron of Blood in my Witch Elf unit now. It's just too good to pass up and the points are better spent on it than on Sorceresses that do little.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 14, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
The cauldron of Blood comes with a big ward save and it can be in a unit witch also get the ward,... something like that???
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 14, 2013, 05:01:01 PM
Yes, the COB itself has a 4+ ward, all ladies in its unit have a 5+
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on December 15, 2013, 02:27:39 PM
Had 3 games yesterday with my High Elves.

Loss against Justins Lizardmen - I was painted.

Massacre Loss against Sean's Khorne/Slaanesh Daemons - again painted.

Loss against Franks Mono Tzeentch Daemon list (very close game) - yup, still painted.

  We played these at the gamesday at my house in little 'ol Moose Jaw.  Smaller turnout than normal but we had a good time eating pizza and playing Warhammer all day.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 15, 2013, 06:33:57 PM
I might be wrong on this Don but I don't think you get points for playing people not in this league, and if I am wrong I would think it to be unfair for those who don't have access to playing people from Saskatoon and Moose Jaw.

That being said, I played Kyle today, he had challenged me and I was painted.We rolled the Watchtower scenario and Kyle won the roll for possession of the tower at the beginning of the game. Now this game was interesting, the two Dark Elf armies matched up very balanced even though the play styles of each we're somewhat different, with Kyle having more shooting and my own force favoring close combat. Throughout the game we found that our stats were matching up even quite a lot, with the always strikes first rule being cancelled out quite a bit too. At the end of 6 turns both the Black Dragons left standing an equal distance to the empty watchtower barely resulting in a normal victory for my army as we had to determine the outcome by victory points.

I don't really have many exciting highlights from this game as it was a very balanced back and forth game if attrition, one notable event was making 4 six+ saves with my Black Guard on 4 dice after they were peppered by some enemy Shades. Also my Witch Elves and COB held up Kyles dragon for two turns which was alright considering they had been flanked. I couldn't win a roll to allow a reform so eventually my 545 point unit was stomped down and routed when the COB was all that was left.

Good game Kyle
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 16, 2013, 10:21:50 PM
I might be wrong on this Don but I don't think you get points for playing people not in this league, and if I am wrong I would think it to be unfair for those who don't have access to playing people from Saskatoon and Moose Jaw.
You are wrong.  League players do get points for playing games against non-league players.  This encourages playing games.  The only thing that can be unfair about playing warhammer is being discouraged to do so. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Yolanka on December 17, 2013, 01:16:50 PM
There is still a minor "penalty" for playing people that aren't in the league - see example from the first page:

"A2) If Justin had instead played Bruce (a non league player), and if Justin had tied that game, he would have got 2pts (and not the 4 tie "victory points").  Justin is still eligible to gain additional points for playing with a painted army and/or playing at ComicReaders. "

The only thing that can be unfair about playing warhammer is being discouraged to do so.
:thumb-up Well said.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 17, 2013, 04:16:29 PM
My bad sorry guys. The fact that there is a penalty balances that out for sure. Didn't mean to sound rude, I saw the example Rob gave just not a clear rule in the main section of the rules. Rob you might want to add that.

Is anyone interested in getting together for the games day at the end of this month? There is lot's of table space and I can bring terrain.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 17, 2013, 08:54:14 PM
Rule was already there but a little tricky to see:

Quote
In order to further promote the spirit of increased game play, players that play matches involving non league members will still benefit from game count and will receive 2 points for the league.  In addition, players that command a different army from their chosen army will also get 2 points for each game played. 

The big picture is that we all benefit if more people are playing warhammer.  This is one way I feel we can help support the building of Warhammer.  Finally, I wanted to mention that everyone in the league knows of people that play warhammer or use to play warhammer (Nathan, Syvain, Llama, etc).  League members should go out there and play those people and I hope the points help to encourage you to do so.     :bump
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 17, 2013, 09:08:08 PM
Is anyone interested in getting together for the games day at the end of this month? There is lot's of table space and I can bring terrain.
I missed this originally... I think the Frag games day is this Dec 21.  I can't make it but it is a good idea Maeson.

According to the Frag website the Jan games day is January 25th.  Who would be available to game that day? I could make that one.

Edit: correction to post after re-reading quote.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on December 18, 2013, 09:56:18 AM
I'm looking to get a game or two in this weekend.

I should be available Friday afternoon & early evening.  Saturday earlier in the morning or/& again in the evening.  And (a rarity) Sunday afternoon.

The fly in my ointment is I'm working around two soccer games (Fri @11pm & Sat @4:15pm) so that you know.

So, yes, Maeson we could schedule a game at FRAG this weekend.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 18, 2013, 04:36:59 PM
I just picked up a shift for Saturday the 28th so if that is the FRAG day I can't make it cause I work. I am available this weekend Allan, Fri or Sat works fine so let me know what works for you. IF we play Fri I can have you over to my house. Otherwise we might have to play at the store if there is room.

Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 19, 2013, 06:05:16 AM
Not sure what you guys have already arranged but I am also free on Friday night.  The kids will be in bed but I have to monitor them so any game will have to be at my house.  I can't go anywhere.  Anyone interested?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 19, 2013, 05:44:48 PM
Allan make sure you declare a ladder challenge if you want to so it is official.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 19, 2013, 10:09:39 PM
Allan is above Maeson on the ladder.  Allan is in position 2 and Maeson is in position 3. 
You can't challenge down as per the rules.
Maeson used monthly challenge but still could use his once per league wildcard ladder challenge. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 20, 2013, 01:01:00 AM
Rob I noticed you haven't updated the ladder with my win against Kyle last Sunday. I should be ahead of Allan for points so HE COULD challenge me just to spell things out in big demeaning letters.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 20, 2013, 08:34:37 AM
Rob I noticed you haven't updated the ladder with my win against Kyle last Sunday. I should be ahead of Allan for points so HE COULD challenge me just to spell things out in big demeaning letters.

Ah, now I see and now I understand your frustrations over this league and last!  The points are independent of the ladder, they are not part of it.  (The only cross over between points and ladder is the bonus point for playing a challenge.)  The ladder is the standings (see below).  Here is an explanation of the ladder... As you can see, "1) Justin" has top spot.  "2) Allan" is in second and "3) Maeson" is 3rd.  As challenges happen the actual placement of the people on the ladder move.  Maeson challenged me and I lost.  He jumped from "6)" to my spot "3)".  I dropped from "3)" to "4)".  There is no point exchange and nothing above has anything to do with the points.  If the league was to rap up today, Justin and Allan would be in the finals.  Remember: The idea of the ladder is that even if you play a minimum of 3 games you still have a shot to get into the finals by winning your challenges.  Everyone's position on the ladder, right now is:

1) Justin
2) Allan
3) Maeson
4) Robert
5) Don
6) Devin
7) Chris
8) Kyle

I took the rules from the Saskatoon League.  I rules are a hard to explain in written (and much easier to explain in person when questions can be answered right away).  The rules are hard to wrap your head around so please take another look at "The ladder".  Also look at the FAQ below the rules for more details.  Both of these are found on page 1, posts 1 and 2 in this forum.   

Completely independent of the ladder list above, the point structure work like normal.  The more points you have the better.  If you end up with the most points you will make it into the finals.

I haven't updated the points and I should... I am hoping to get caught up today. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 20, 2013, 04:15:45 PM
I created a file to keep track of the games played and points scored and such.  Updated the games played.  Find this info back on page 1, post 3 this forum.  Main Update summary: that Robert (20pts), Maeson (16pts) and Kyle (14pts) have the most points.   

I also updated how the finals will work.  I included time lines to get the finals played.  Also updated how we will divid the prizes This is updated on Page 1, post 1 of this forum.  Main Update summery : the league will end at the end of Feb.  League finals will happen in March, timelines included to help get the games going and completed.  Prizes will be divided $40 for league winner, $30 for runner up, remainder will be a draw that includes everyone else.

Edit:  correction to Kyle's points.  (14pts down from originally posted 15pts)
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 21, 2013, 07:53:38 AM
Check your points over and see if I made a mistake.  I already corrected some! 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 26, 2013, 07:38:11 PM
OK I have had a couple games that haven't been posted yet.

Played Allan in a game to receive a normal loss. I made a couple big mistakes with my main hammer units, one was my Dreadlord on Black Dragon getting stranded for a couple of turns when Allan's Silver Helms fled from his charge. I also charged a nasty unit of Phoenix Guard that had a 3++. They killed the Dreadlord and made the Dragon flee and eventually caught it again and chopped it up into pieces. The other mistake was letting some Ellyrian Reavers distract my Witch Elves and Cauldron of Blood for too long, here I forgot that my Assassin has throwing weapons so he might have been able to pick them off to clear the way for my main unit. Was still a close game though, my mistakes made the difference. Both of us were painted.

Played Justin last Sunday. I did good in this battle with my Dreadlord and Witch Elves. They combo charged a large unit of Orcs and bashed it up in one turn, then the Witch Elves accepted a charge from a huge nasty unit of Savage Orcs led by a Savage Orc Warboss. The ladies survived the initial onslaught and whittled away at them. My assassin killing blowed his Warboss in the 5th turn which allowed my Witch Elves to finished of the normal Savage Orcs. At this point Justin's breaking point was low enough to end the game, we added up VP's and I scored a massacre victory. A major turn in the tide was when the Wyvern mounted Black Orc Warboss failed his charge against my Corsairs, which allowed them to flank the Savage Orcs and help out the ladies in distress.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 26, 2013, 09:36:55 PM
Thanks Maeson for posting your games in the forum.  Allan sent me this which I will also add to the game total in due time:

Got 2 games in this past weekend:
-vs. Maeson - in a Battle Line scenario I had a victory.  Both our armies were painted.
-vs. Devin - in a rematch of our Escalation Tourney game we replayed Blood & Glory.  I was able to break his WoC without surrendering any break points in return.  My army was painted, Devin's was not.


Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 26, 2013, 10:09:37 PM
MARK THE DATE: Jan 25th will be a come-and-go warhammer event at FRAG PGE.  This event will be our special event, worth 2pts for attending (plus any additionally points for playing). Everyone is welcome to come, yes, non-league players too!  Don will likely be the unoffiicial official host.  There might be a small door fee payable to FRAG for hall rental and such. (Actually it is free)  To make this event a success we need the commitment from you to get it started.   The time frame is still flexible but the hall is open from noon until 11PM.  Can you comment to go? What times do you think you can be there?  More details to follow...

I can make it to this Jan 25th event. Right now, I am looking at being there around 3-3:30 and staying until close. I will be there at 9am

I forgot to add that I am glad to see all the warhammer games that where played this month!  With Devin getting a game in verse Allan everyone in the league had at least one game this month.  Winter is when I turn up my game playing but a number of people have said that typically they play less.  So again I am glad to see that we put out a good number of games. 

Edited: updated the cost.
Edited: Location.  Please see pages 9 and 10 for details about the location change
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on December 27, 2013, 12:31:30 PM
I will run the Jan 25th event and will be there with bells on!  I will bring a few Moose Jaw boys with me and I think I can convince a few other "out of towners" to show up. ;)

  Really looking forward to seeing some familiar faces and meeting some new fellows that I only know by written name on the forum.  Does anyone know how many tables we can set up?  I'll bring what I can for terrain, table mats, etc - and will be bringing Tomb Kings - cuz I want to. :D

  It opens at noon?  No way to get in before that? 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on December 30, 2013, 09:30:22 AM
We might be able to get in sooner.  I know that we where able to sneak in early the last time.  I will contact the FRAG group and answer these questions.  I am just a bit busy but will try to get back to you.  My thought is that we could start at least as early as noon, they run a canteen there (some home made food in addition to store bought), and there will be an abundance of tables available. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on December 30, 2013, 09:01:48 PM
I am in for this event. I am pretty sure that they open the doors at 12 usually.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on January 02, 2014, 02:28:00 PM
I can be there, just need to know where it is XD. I'll see if I can convince my brother to come with me and use his vamp counts or one of my armies. I have a battle mat if we need more. I'll probably be bringing skaven or orcs for this one, because I've been playing DE too much recently. Are we going to be doing the usual 2500 point battles or another amount?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on January 02, 2014, 08:15:03 PM
Are we allowed to change our army races during the course of this league?

Had a battle for the pass against Nathan's High Elves. I was painted Nathan was not. Once again I found the match up to be very balanced with asf cancelling out and our stats equal in most combats. I had a massacre victory, the game was decided by a fight between my ladies and the cauldron vs a wild formed unit of spear elves. My ladies were demolished but the cob held on and eventually broke the stubborn unit when Nathan rolled a ten on his break test, the next turn the death hag caught the spears with a long charge.

It's funny how often I am rolling ones for my cold one saves, I wish someone take a big monster for them to fight!

Other noteable events was my Dragon wiping out a unit of Princes while my Dark Riders get lanced in the flank by a griffon mounted noble. Dragon reformed after this fight was broke up to counter charge the Phoenux Guard that was engaged with my Black Guard and Corsairs which sealed the deal. Good game Nathan thanks.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on January 03, 2014, 08:05:24 AM
You can only use a different army for the special event (or so I thought I read on page one anyways) and still receive full points as though you were using your chosen army.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 04, 2014, 09:13:54 PM
You can only use a different army for the special event (or so I thought I read on page one anyways) and still receive full points as though you were using your chosen army.
That is correct. Bring what ever army you want to the "special" event.  Don't need to notify us in advance or anything like that. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 04, 2014, 09:30:21 PM
The Jan 25 games day is going down at Regina North East Community Centre (160 Broad St).  I found out it is free.  They tell me that the doors open at noon and close at 11pm.  They will have enough tables for us but bringing a games mat is a good idea.  (I was told we can push two tables together for a pretty good surface.)  I would imagine that Don wants to run games with 2500pt lists.  I have been itching to get a 1250pt game in to try out that list.  So I will be bringing that list too... just in case!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on January 04, 2014, 11:36:20 PM
Sounds good, I can bring some terrain. I will commit to 2500 points of Dark Elves as I am having fun with them at the moment. Would anyone be able to pick me up on their way there? I would like to get in a couple games at least  :thumb-up!!!!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on January 05, 2014, 12:41:34 AM
I'll be there at or before 12 noon.  Play whatever point value you want.  Lets just get together and have fun!

   Why not just have everyone bring a 2500 point list and a 1250 point list?  Choice is good and then if someone wants a quick game if they happen to be waiting for another to finish, a 1250 point game may just fit in.  I'll bring both a 1250 list and a 2500 list Rob.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 09, 2014, 10:55:55 AM
Updated the games played and reattached the updated stats spreadsheet.  Find this info on page 1 in this forum.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on January 15, 2014, 03:25:17 PM
Played Devin yesterday in one of the most hard fought battles I have participated in . We agreed to do a battle line scenario since we were limited on time.

Highlights of the battle from my point of view:

Heralds of Harassment!! My Dark Riders snuck around the WOC's main battleline and charged the Hellcannon, holding it up for 3 turns in combat before they were squished by the unbreakable monster. It was worth the sacrifice though.

Reapers of Doom!! I hit Devin's Daemon Prince twice with single shot reapers and wounded him twice, but only caused 3 wounds when I needed 4 to take the prince out. This resulted in me taking many little pot shots at em the entire game trying to get rid of that last wound which soaked up alot of missle fire from my army. My Reapers also finished off 3 units that only had 1 or 2 models left so I could grab the victory points.

Witches of Woe!!! My Witch Elves and Cauldron of Blood with Death Hag charged some Nurgle Chaos Warriors and actually broke them even without any strength buffs. This resulted in me pursuing them and in turn getting rear charged by another unit of Chaos Warriors which resulted in a big mess of a battle in the middle of the field. My Assassin saved the day here as he eliminated 2 heros and 2 champions giving me enough break points to hold on and eventually wittle down the 2 units of warriors with massed attacks. This was where the game was decided, had my unit been destroyed Devin would have easily won.

Dreadlord of Danger!! My Dragonlord charged Devin's knights and held them up for 3 turns before eventually destroying them and the Exalted Hero that they were led by.

The Daemon Prince of Pain!! This guy was just flying all over the battlefield causing my harassing units to run and forcing me to get into CC with my main heavy hitting units. The DP took out a Master in a unit of Cold One Knights in two turns, breaking them as their lizards mounts galloped away dumbly, only to be caught. This did tie up the DP for a couple turns which helped me out a lot.

Black Guardians!!! MY 10 Black Guard took a charge from 20 Marauders and even though they lost a couple combats, their stubborn rule helped them hold on long enough to eventually whittle the enemy down and break them once their ranks had been removed.

Devin's Dice!!! This guy had all sorts of good rolls at crucial moments, break tests were being narrowly passed left and right, and then there was his magic! In one turn he got off like 4 spells!! I was scared, but in the end the elite elves and their Martial Prowess prevailed for a Massacre Victory against those tough Warriors of Chaos.

Hellcannon of Heck!! This thing shot my 15 Corsairs, hit right in the middle of them, and killed 14 outright in one shot!!!! The lone champion survivor spent the game hiking around avoiding the enemy to conserve victory points.

That's all I got.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 15, 2014, 04:32:18 PM
Thanks for the battle report Maeson.  Did the Deamon Prince bit it or hold on for the remainder of the game?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on January 15, 2014, 04:43:15 PM
It flew around for the last two turns with one wound left, I managed to stop it casting any spells so it's wounds and toughness were not increased. That thing is scary! I am glad my Dragonlord didn't end up in close combat with it.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on January 19, 2014, 08:25:42 PM
I'll be there at or before 12 noon.  Play whatever point value you want.  Lets just get together and have fun!

   Why not just have everyone bring a 2500 point list and a 1250 point list?  Choice is good and then if someone wants a quick game if they happen to be waiting for another to finish, a 1250 point game may just fit in.  I'll bring both a 1250 list and a 2500 list Rob.
Planning to be at FRAG this Saturday but I won't be able to make it out until supper time (somewhere between 5-6pm).  I have a soccer game in the middle of the afternoon otherwise I would be there at noon as well.  But some is better than none.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 19, 2014, 11:49:16 PM
Glad to hear Allan, it will be nice to see you out there. 

There is a bit of a problem with the PGE (Prairie Gaming Expo) in that they are having games on the same day as FRAG.  This happen by mistake when PGE booked their venue many, many months ago.  Anyway both venues have semi planned something for a warhammer fantasy but I don;t see why this should be at two events.  \In my opinion we should move there OR they should come to Frag.  In either case we are not married to one location or the other.  My personal preference is for the FRAG event.  I will be working it out with Don tomorrow.  We will nail down a location.   The PGE is hosting the 40K for sure - and Chris S is running it.

FRAG hours noon-11pm
PGE hours 9am-9pm
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on January 20, 2014, 02:14:25 AM
Yeah I am going to the PGE since is a block away from my house and also because there will be a 40k tournament. Bonus points for the escalation league are also being awarded.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on January 20, 2014, 04:05:08 AM
I'll stick with the original plan of gaming at the Frag Saturday.  I suppose this is something that will have to be factored in for the future.

  I'll be there around noon I suppose considering we're not entirely sure who'll be attending.  I'll bring as many Moose Jaw boys as I can and I hope to see some new faces.  My wife finishes work at 7 or 11:30 so I may have to leave to pick her up.  I'll know more throughout the week.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 20, 2014, 05:46:06 AM
Sounds good Squalie!  i will see you there.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on January 21, 2014, 01:15:26 AM
Don are you bringing your High Elves? I would like to take a stab at them since Dark Elves are known for being vengeful and all. I might try to make both events, play in the tourney then shoot over for a fantasy game or two.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on January 21, 2014, 06:14:54 PM
Just found out I am more than likely going to have to work on Saturday :(

It may only be for part of the day though so I could probably come by later.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on January 21, 2014, 09:29:17 PM
Should be there at or before noon with my Tomb Kings.  I'll also be bringing Sean, Frank and Justin with me. 

  Mr Williams, what time could you be there best case scenario?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 21, 2014, 10:10:57 PM
Good to hear that your bringing so many guys, Squalie.  I will be meeting you and your boyz at noon!  Not sure what time I am leaving but it should be a great time.

Barcley just e-mailed me to tell me that he will be swinging by after he is done work at 4.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on January 21, 2014, 11:41:42 PM
Well, best case scenario is that I don't have to work on Saturday, but based on what I know, that is a very low chance, also depends on how early my journeyman is willing to start on saturday. I'll know more on Friday.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 24, 2014, 07:47:22 PM
CHANGE OF PLANS:  WE WILL BE MEETING THE MOOSEJAW BOYZ at PGE tomorrow.  The start time is 9am and close is 9pm.  This is a change from our planned FRAG gathering at noon!!  Maeson you will not have to change venues! The main reason for the change:
- the earlier start time is better for the MooseJaw crowd

PGE is at ... (pending location - just need to find it! be right back!)
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Lareina on January 24, 2014, 07:51:03 PM
CHANGE OF PLANS:  WE WILL BE MEETING THE MOOSEJAW BOYZ at PGE tomorrow.  The start time is 9am and close is 9pm.  This is a change from our planned FRAG gathering at noon!!  Maeson you will not have to change venues! The main reason for the change:
- the earlier start time is better for the MooseJaw crowd

PGE is at ... (pending location - just need to find it! be right back!)

PGX is at 445 14th Ave
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 24, 2014, 08:15:55 PM
Lareina beat me too it: Core Ritchie Community Centre at 445 14th Ave!  Change of event to this location for Jan 25th.  Each player that has already signed up for the event at Frag will be contacted by me to ensure that every one knows.  Please respond by PM (or post) if you know.  People that I know already know: Don and Allan

There isn't much different from this event and the one at Frag beside the location:
- The event is free
- Host is ComicReaders
- No outside food (please support canteen)

more info about PGE:
http://forums.saskgames.com/index.php?topic=3197.msg17159;topicseen#new
http://forums.saskgames.com/index.php?topic=3337.0
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on January 24, 2014, 08:52:26 PM
That is correct.  The Moose Jaw crowd had decided to go to the expo @ Core Ritchie Community Centre at 445 14th Ave because of the earlier start time. 

  This may confuse some and disappoint others, but we found that starting earlier was better than finishing later for the out of towners.  There will be me, Sean and Justin.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 25, 2014, 12:28:07 AM
Remember cash only for food!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on January 29, 2014, 10:27:21 PM
At the Prairie Game Expo event I managed to get into two games verse two great MooseJaw guys.  I used the same list for both games.  I was fully painted.  The basics of the list and highlights:

Lords – Beastlord was armoured up with a +5 ward.  He was carrying the Stone crusher mace (+3 Strength mace, 10S vs warmachines/chariots)
Great Bray Shaman, level 4 with Beast Lore and goodies
Heros – The standard Beastmen players Battle standard bearer: Wargor, armoured up with the “Gnarled hide” (total armour save +2) and “Beastbanner” (+1 Strenght to unit!).  I also took two level one shamans and for the first time in a long time the herdstone (adds power dice).
Core - 35 Gors with additional hand weapon, Full command (the perfect place for a +1S bonus!) and arounded out my core with 4 chariots.
Special – a unit of 35 Bestigors for my Beastlord general to join. As usual I added 3 solo raorgors to the army.
Rare – one large Ghorgon with a Frenzy 7 attacks.  This monster has the ability to add attacks each combat and has a special rule to use a special 4+ killing blow with the added bonus to heal wounds. 

 The first game that I played was against Sean’s Skaven.  His army was nearly fully painted and looked Awesome.   His army was a close combat army with 4 ranked/horde units.  I tried to wittle away his skaven slaves with magic and early charges with my ghorgon and 2 chariots.  They did do quite a number of wounds but the slaves held strong in their ranks for a few turns.  This allowed Sean to swing a hammer horde unit with impact hits dealing warmachine within.  Wam!  The Beastlord and the bestigors herd where hit hard with magic.  They managed to take out the globadiers but didn’t gain much traction after.  The end of the game closed with the Beastlord surrounded in a tower with much of Sean’s army surrounding him.  The only other model to survive was one level one mage.  In hindsight, I should have focused on  his leadership and warmachines.  Take out the top because there are just too many underlines to hammer out.  Beastmen massacre Loss to Skaven.

My second game was against a great player Justin from Moose Jaw.  Justin brought his unpainted Empire army.  It was a close combat army that included: 50 halberdiers, 40 Great swords, 10 Inner Circle Knights, Hericannium chariot, Steam Tank, 3 Demigyphan Knights, helblaster volley gun and a number of characters: witch hunter, engineer, warrior priest and general Arch Lector on War Alter.  In the game, I manovoured my high strength hitting Beastlord and great weapon wielding Bestigors  into his steam tank.  It only lasted TWO rounds of combat and it was destroy.   Unfortunately for me, Justin had an absolute steller magic phase on about turn 3.  This provided a number of bubbling buffs courtesy of his Arch Lector on War Alter.  My army fell apart on this turn and was completely destroyed by turn 5.  The above magic phase can not be helped but I think my list was troublesome in this battle.  It was shy on foottroops.  I think I should have had at least 5-10 more in my Gor and beastigor herds.  Beastmen massacre loss to Empire.

Don also played Sean and Justin at PGE with his painted Tomb Kings.  I think he went 1-1.  Maeson also showed up ready to game but unfortunately we where midway through our last game.

Total points for this event: 
Robert 4 points (non-league players), +2 painted, +2 special event     
Don 4 points (non-league players), +2 painted, +2 special event     
Maeson +2 special event     

It was fun to have a number of guys hanging out having some fun games.  The venue’s atmosphere at large made it a unigue gaming experience.   The food was good.  The only thing that was wrong is that we changed the venue at the last moment.   I had envisioned that this would encourage more to come and game with the Moosejaw boyz but it didn’t turn out how I had thought.  My plan now is that we could throw a bash in Feb down at the Frag gamesday?  I already looked into this and they are still willing to have me there and if I am still welcome then you would be too!   

Are you available and willing to go to Frag Feb 22?  What time are you available? 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on January 30, 2014, 06:17:40 AM
I'll go to the Frag on Feb 22.

 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on January 30, 2014, 12:42:18 PM
February 22 - I'll be planning to be there.  I have a soccer game at 7:30pm so I'll be there for the afternoon.  Maybe we can get in early (ie. ~10am?) on that day.

Played Justin this past weekend - his Orcs & Goblins vs my High Elves.  We had originally planned to play the weekend before, but ended up needing to reschedule.  The plan was that we would play our game, I'd go to my soccer mid-afternoon, he'd go to FRAG, and then I'd head over to PGE to join the rest of the guys.  But when it came time to go to my soccer game, my car wouldn't start.  So I missed my soccer and missed joining the others at PGE.  :(

Our game was a ladder challenge game.  I issued my monthly challenge and he accepted.  Both our armies were painted.

We rolled up the Dawn Attack scenario. After deployment, the weight of our forces were kitty-korner to each other so it was a question of who was going to get into position and get off the favourable charge.  Justin made a point of quickly making my eagles into turkey shish-kabobs with his spear-chukkas.  I retaliated by running his war machines down with my Reavers.  Justin's advance was stalled by:  1) a failed animosity, 2) a failed frenzy restraint test (followed by a failed charge), and 3) a Goblin fanatic parked directly in front of his Big'Uns.  My difficulties were trying to get my Silver Helms out from being trapped in a table corner by his nasty mob of Savage Orcs. And ... both my mages blowing themselves up with Total Power rolls (at least both times the spells that went off had a strong effect on the game).

In the end the game was decided with a single massive combat on turn five.  My Phoenix Guard were charged by his Night Goblins (a 7 rank unit), flank charged by his giant, and rear charged by his Warboss on wyvern.  His netters entangled my elves but in return I pulled off a slight-of-hand, saying "I'll challenge your Warboss."  He accepted and my champion moved over to dutifully sacrifice himself.  As that fight started he realized he hadn't needed to accept with his Warboss.  So the champion struck the wyvern causing a wound, and the Warboss killed the champion but only with one wound. And then he more-or-less whiffed the rest of his attacks.  The end result was I lost the combat by only 1 and but was able to pass my break test.  On my turn I flanked charged the Night Goblins with my Silver Helms (they had managed to elude the Savage Orcs), rear charged the giant with my White Lions, and flank charged the Warboss with my Phoenix.  The Night Goblins got shredded, the giant was finished off, and BBB (Big Blue Bird) managed to eliminate the wyvern.  In return the greenskins didn't manage to score a single wound.  Needless to say the goblins broke and were run down by the knights and the Warboss couldn't outrun BBB.

And that was basically it.  I ended up with a standard victory.  In the finally analysis the game was decided when his dice whiffed in that first critical combat round.  If he had caused even 3 more wounds, which he easily could/should have, there was a very good chance of me failing my break test and losing the game.  Instead Lady Luck abandoned him in his moment of need and turned her favourable eye to Ulthuan's finest.

So what do I take away from that?  That I was lucky and fate favoured me.  Not much to beat my chest about trying to claim success due to my "amazing generalship" (far from it).  It's a bit disconcerting to realize that after all my ploys, movements, weighing the many pro's and con's of the dilemma in front of me, that it was all decided by pure brute luck.  Kind of humbling. But that's Warhammer, you never know what will happen.

Thanks Justin for a great entertaining game and for the good company.  Maybe next time Lady Luck dances with you, eh?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 02, 2014, 08:59:25 AM
Thanks for the post Allan.  Please post any other games that you have had and I will be updating the stats within the next day or two.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on February 03, 2014, 04:38:42 PM
Anyone care to have a game soon?????
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 04, 2014, 11:31:27 AM
Anyone care to have a game soon?????

I am tapped out until at least next week.  However I am wondering if anyone would be able to make game on Thursday, Feb 13.  Late afternoon or evening, at CR? 

Also wandering interest on Feb 22, at Frag?  Don, Allan and myself are showing interest.  A few more guys would be great! 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 05, 2014, 02:25:29 PM
I updated our league points, ladder, corrected the PDF from end of Dec (Maeson's record) and posted a new end of Jan PDF with the points.  This is found on the first page of our forum.  Check it and point out any errors, please!

Highlights, ladder movement:  Allan is now at the top of the ladder.  Justin lost the challenge and fell to 2nd place.
Highlights, point leaders:  Maeson is the point leader at 45pts.  He is about 2-3 won games ahead of everyone! 
 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on February 05, 2014, 04:25:03 PM
Thanks for the update Rob!

Anyone free Sunday for a battle? Chris and Don I am looking your ways.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 09, 2014, 05:44:45 AM
Kyle responded saying that he would be up for a game on Saturday Feb 22. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on February 11, 2014, 08:53:06 PM
I'm having a gamesday this weekend.  Guys are showing up around 4pm on Friday and some stay until Sunday.  There will be Pizza, drinks and snacks.  BYOB.

  Hope to see some of you and pm for address.

Don.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 13, 2014, 12:59:57 PM
I'm having a gamesday this weekend.  Guys are showing up around 4pm on Friday and some stay until Sunday.  There will be Pizza, drinks and snacks.  BYOB.

  Hope to see some of you and pm for address.

Don.
Hey Don don't forget that Valentines Day is this Friday!  Someone is going to be in the Dog house... the plus side is it isn't suppose to be as cold this weekend as the past ones.

I was hoping to come Saturday evening but it looks like I will likely be busy with my Bro-in-law.  I will update you if plans change.   :d6-1 :d6-1
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on February 16, 2014, 09:33:09 PM
Had a great gamesday and I was asked to post what happened.  Too bad you guys couldn't make it, it was a ton of fun.  Friday night to Sunday.

  I played my High Elves

Game 1: Massacre LOSS vs. Andre and his new Dwarfs.
Game 2: Massacre WIN vs. Sean and his Empire.
Game 3: Massacre WIN vs. Justin and his Chaos Dwarfs
Game 4: Massacre WIN vs. Dom and his Lizards
Game 5: Massacre LOSS vs. Nathan and his DE (1500 points)
Game 6: Massacre Loss vs. Nathan and his cursed DE. (1500 points)
Game 7: DRAW vs. Carson and his O&G.
Game 8: Massacre WIN vs. Darren and his Ogres.
Game 9: REGULAR WIN vs. Barcley and his Daemons.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 16, 2014, 10:02:14 PM
Wow, Don that really looks like a great time!  I am glad to see that Barcley made it out there.  I wish that I could have.

Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on February 19, 2014, 01:42:29 PM
Sorry, been a bit out of the loop (was also out of the province for a bit  :) ).  Anyways, still planning to be at FRAG this Sat. for some WHFB gaming.  I will have to take off for a bit though around supper as I have a soccer game at 7:30pm.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 20, 2014, 08:33:32 AM
I am also planning to be going.  I am flexible when I go but earlier is likely better.  I will not be staying into the evening.  I am planning an entirely new army list so be warned!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 20, 2014, 10:25:36 AM
Frag is at  North East Community Center, 160 Broad Street, behind Imperial School.  It is free.  It technically starts at noon and goes until 11pm.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Kyle_Williams on February 21, 2014, 06:56:14 PM
Sorry to disappoint everyone but I'm no longer going to be able to come to frag tomorrow, family plans got moved to then. I am available next weekend though if anyone wants to have a match.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 21, 2014, 08:42:58 PM
We will miss you Kyle.  Don also PM'd me and he also will not be able to make it.  Maeson on the other hand can (likely) come! Maeson can you confirm that your coming?  Is there anyone else that would like to go?

Since there is 3 of us I suggest that we make two lists each, one at 2500 and the other at 1250.  Then we can have 2 vs 1 games. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on February 21, 2014, 09:04:20 PM
What time is everyone planning to be there?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 21, 2014, 09:18:44 PM
I just talked to Allan and we decided noon.  I have to be out at 4pm.  Allan has a soccer game at 7:30.

** Maeson has confirmed that he is coming too.  All three of us will be there at noon.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 22, 2014, 08:57:40 PM
Allan, Maeson and I had a 2 vs 1 game this afternoon starting shortly after one.  The combined allied rules didn't favor "Despreate" allies of Allan's High Elves and my Beastmen.  They syenergy between the High elf and Beastmen list was void and the Desperate allied rules really punish allies int he magic phase.  Then ee where crushed be the onslaught of Maeson's Dark Elves.  The game rapped up smartly at 4.  When I left Justin and Maeson where setting up the table for more traditional 1 on 1 game.  In the 2 on 1 game, it was with great pleasure to report that everyone was painted.  Maeson will get points for a crushing victroy, painted.  Allan and myself will get participation points and the +1 painted bonus.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 23, 2014, 09:11:55 AM
Hey guys.  I MIGHT have an opening for a game tonight starting after 8:30.  I say MIGHT but I will be able to confirm by ~1pm today.  If you are interested give me a PM.  I am prepared to game tonight at 1250 or 2500 point levels. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on February 23, 2014, 09:51:51 AM
Maeson and I played a game after the three way battle at FRAG yesterday. It was a close fought match, but a single corsair the dread lord and the whitches remained for the dark elves, beating me by a solid 200 points. I was unpainted and Maeson was painted.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 23, 2014, 05:22:57 PM
Thanks Justin for the update on your game.  You kept it close.  How did the Arachnarok fair?  Did you come with the 40 savage orc unit and how did it fair?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on February 24, 2014, 09:55:13 AM
Allan, Maeson and I had a 2 vs 1 game this afternoon starting shortly after one.  The combined allied rules didn't favor "Despreate" allies of Allan's High Elves and my Beastmen.  They syenergy between the High elf and Beastmen list was void and the Desperate allied rules really punish allies int he magic phase.  Then ee where crushed be the onslaught of Maeson's Dark Elves.  The game rapped up smartly at 4.  When I left Justin and Maeson where setting up the table for more traditional 1 on 1 game.  In the 2 on 1 game, it was with great pleasure to report that everyone was painted.  Maeson will get points for a crushing victroy, painted.  Allan and myself will get participation points and the +1 painted bonus.
Yep, Desperate Allies are exactly that - DESPERATE!  Man, did we get smoked! Frustrating at the time, hilarious now. I guess a little bit of time brings a better perspective.  ;)
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 24, 2014, 10:49:34 PM
Hey guys just wanted to give you the heads up that the league is in the last week.  Playoffs start March 1!  Maeson is running away with the points for 1st place.  Trailing way behind him in 2nd place are Don (~35pts), Rob (~32pts), and Allan (~27pts).  And there can always be movement on the ladder but Justin and Allan are currently at the top.  Get your last games in to shake this up... For the guys that end up in top place, be prepared to try to get your games in as soon as possible!  I would like to have those games rapped on schedule and get the prizes out without delay.  Thanks! 
(Please NOTE that the points are an estimate only and I will try to update the point list tomorrow night)

@Maeson - we set up a game at the every end of the month, March 28.  I was wondering if you can still make this appointment because it has to go down at my house.  Can you make it over at 8:30?  I will issue a ladder challenge for your 3rd place ladder position!  Do you accept?   
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on February 25, 2014, 03:10:23 AM
Everyone must kill me....

I am indeed down for the 28th battle Rob, I would enjoy facing what a full 2500 point  Beastmen army can do!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 26, 2014, 09:22:33 PM
I updated the point list.   I attached the PDF on the first page (at the bottom of all the stats for the ladder and record keeping - third post with the the other attachments).   I spotted a mistake and it appears that I missed 9pts for squalie, so he got a big jump there!!  Maeson and Don will likely finish at the top of the points.  Allan and Justin will likely finish on the top of the ladder.  If there isn't any movement from the current positions Maeson will meet Justin.  And Allan and Don will meet in the semi-finals.  I set out a time frame that I am hoping that people can obtain the first round of finals.  This was posted when I drew up the rules for the league... March 1-20 for the first round of semi-finals.  March 21-31 for the finals! 

Edited:  needed to add the semi-final and final dates. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on February 27, 2014, 06:02:12 AM
Sorry to disappoint everyone but I'm no longer going to be able to come to frag tomorrow, family plans got moved to then. I am available next weekend though if anyone wants to have a match.

Hey Kyle are you still free?  I have an opening for a game Saturday evening at 8:30.  I have to watch my kids (they willl be asleep).  Would you like to have a game?
Update: we are having a game.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on March 01, 2014, 10:06:32 AM
Hey guys, please post any results of games that you might not have yet.  This will rap up the end of the regular league play!  I will tally up the numbers but I don't expect much change from my earlier Feb 26 post.  Playoffs are here so make sure that you contact your opponent right away so we can rap up the league finals in a timely fashion. 

Maeson and I had a game last night.  I challenged him and I was again unsuccessful.  In turn two a chariot panicked that panicked a second.  Impact hits from the chariots on the nearby Battlestardard barer where substantial but the standard was still standing.  In a number of my magics phases I cast "viletide" which is a Beastmen 5D6 S1 magic missile.  I tended to roll a lot of dice for hits but generally failed to wound many (as one would expect from Strength 1).  However, in turn 4 I rolled amazing wounds on his Deadread Lord and dragon and produced a pile of wounds after rolling about twelve "6's" on the dice.  The Deadlord was ok, saving all six S1 wounds... but the Dragon actually failed 3 on about 7 wounds!  The Beastmen general added a wound in the last moments of the game but end the end the dragon ended up cooking him and then hunting down a gor unit.  I was doing ok until turn 5.  The wheels of the chariot fell off when the Darkelves charged basically everything.  The Beastmen panicked and went running in all directions and Maeson went into clean up.  I conserved a few points on the last turn but at the end of the game the score was ~2100 Maeson to Robers ~850.   Maeson scores a massacre victory, he was painted, and receives a bonus point for the ladder challenge.  Maeson gets -2 for playing me a third time.  I get 2pts minimum "Victory" points and added "bonus" points for fully painted and challenge (total 4pts).

oops, looked up the rule... a fleeing chariot does not cause impact hits!


Edited to correct impact chariot rules.

Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on March 03, 2014, 03:01:32 PM
Kyle came over to my house and we had a game on March 1.  It was officilly a day after the league rapped up so no points will be rewarded.  For the record it was a win for me.  I was painted and Kyle was not.  Here is my version of the battle report...

We rolled up the Watch Tower scenario.  I groaned and I asked, "do you want to roll again?"  We both agreed the Watch Tower scenario wasn't good but Kyle still wanted to play it saying something to the effect he doesn't get to play that scenario often!  So we tried it.  I started with control of the tower and added the biggest core unit I had into it... 10 gors including a standard barer.  My list was not made for the Watch Tower as I had 4 core tuskgor chariots and 2 razorgor chariots that could not assault the Tower!  I also had 2 ghorgon that could assault the tower but not occupy it.  I did however have 4 (10man) gor units, 4 units (5 man) ungor raiders, a Doombull general, Gorebull Standard Barer, and a level 3 shaman that could potentially get in there.  I put 3 units into ambush just encase Kyle DE had bolt throwers... then forgot about them so they never seen the table!  Kyle's army looked something like this:  2 units of 10 Dark Raiders, 10 Coldone Knights, a coldone chariot, 40 Executioners with a hero that gives them Frenzy, 25ish witch elves, 2 units of Warlocks.   

After deployment Kyle moved his vanguard and took the first turn.  He assulted the tower with his 5 warlocks which beat the 10 gors but didn't make them flee.  His unit of 40 executioners advanced to take a position behind a fence.  The rest of his army moved up.  In my turn one, I thought that I could destroy that block of executioners and charged against his wall... 2 tuskgor chariots, Razorgor chariots and the Gorebull Standard barer.  The chariots all passed dangerous terrain and combined with the Gorebull did about 11-12 wounds on impact hits.  The Executioners attacked first and I was shocked when they destroyed all the chariots in that turn!  Even the Toughness 5, 5 wound Razorgor chariot.  I lost that combat.  The BSB was the only thing to survive but he didn't last long after.  In my first magic phase, I caste a spell with irresistible force and the resulting damage from the miscast destroyed a 10 man gor unit and sent the shaman into the chaos void.  I was now down a good chunk of my core, no magic and had a huge block of unbeatable infantry right beside the watch tower.  In the following turn (2), Kyle's witch elves where lead off on a wild goose chase and his coldones on that same flank failed a charge... Finally something was going right.  Kyle beat and destroyed the remaining gors inside the watchtower but couldn't occupy it because he attacked it with cavalry (warlocks).  Now it was around turn 2 that Kyle realized that he could have occupied the Tower with his 40 man Executioners!  (He was under the impression that you can only occupy it with units less then 20 men because of the starting rules for the watch tower scenario.) Unfortunately, this "little" issue was the difference of his army occupying the tower and winning the game and not! 

Without magic defense the following turns of Kyle's magic was brutal!  He caste withering bubble and melted what was left of most of my army.  I was in pretty bad situation but didn't give up hope.  A chariot of mine, charged a unit of 5 warlocks and promptly sank into a marsh and was destroyed.  However, the chariots target (warlocks) fleed, failed to rally, and ran off the table.   In addition, a ghorgon and razorgor chariot charged his 10 coldone knights, broke them, but failed to catch them.  The Knights rallied and destroyed both the ghorgon and razorgor chariot with magic help.  One the other side of the table the DE coldone chariot charged and destroyed a withered Ghorgon.

Right beside the watch tower the executioner unit was still in a good DE position to win the game for Kyle.  This unit had to be held up at all costs and I only had one unit that might have a chance against it, my lone Doombull general which I charged into them!  The Doombull was kitted out just right for maximum survival against this unit: he had +1 Amour save, +4 ward and Always Strike First.  Although Kitted out like this, the DB wasnt likely to survive the odds but the dice gods favored him passing 10 armour saves and 10 ward saves or more?!.  (This fight continued over 5 combat rounds and included minor units charging in to try to brake one side or the other.)  The doombull eventually ground down Executioners until it had only four members left and then it broke, failing to rally before the end of the turn.  The Doombull, wounded but not out, occupied the Tower alone.   Around him the DE where closing in.  The witch elves regained some of the position of the table and where in charge range.  Kyle sent in his repeater bolts from the Dark Riders and hit the tower with magic missiles.  He set up for the final charge... but then we rolled the end of the scenario.  The scenario ended on turn 5.  I won the cheezy Watch Tower scenario with my Doombull general left against his Coldone knights, coldone chariot, witch elves, one unit of warlocks and one unit of 10 Dark riders.  Seems unfair!  Oh well I'll take it!  Thanks for the game, Kyle.  :)
 

Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on March 05, 2014, 10:28:36 PM
... I see that I didn't post it but please use your league army for the finals.  Happy gaming!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on March 06, 2014, 06:31:13 AM
Sounds good Rob. Maeson and I are playing our game this Sunday. We should have results out that night.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on March 09, 2014, 08:03:57 PM
Maeson and I played our semi final game today. We rolled blood and glory for our scenario and we each had 7 break points. The game came down to the wire with both armies down to 4 break points. In the final turn the savage orcs, arachnarok spider and witch elves were in close combat. They deadly ladies made mince meat out of half of my savages, and killed the arachnarok. This left just enough boys to tear down the death hag from the couldren of blood and take the winning break point.

Thanks Maeson for the great game and season!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on March 09, 2014, 09:21:43 PM
Wow, good job Justin! Sounds like Maeson and you had an epic struggle.   Where did you play?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on March 10, 2014, 04:42:12 PM
It was a great game. We played at Maeson's place. Any update about the other semi final?
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on March 15, 2014, 02:07:49 PM
Devin and I had a siege game for the first time with my new fortress set.  The game when horrible for me but we had fun so I thought that I would post some notes here. 

Beastmen hate the works of man.  They will stop at nothing to destroy everything that is manmade.  It doesn’t make much sense for Beastmen to occupy a fortress.  However, to make this scenario work we fluffed that the powerful lvl4 Beastmen shaman had a dark dream from the chaos gods.  In this dream he was to occupy the fortress for dark rituals.  Unfortunately for him, the chaos gods also spoke to a tribe of chaos warriors and they came seeking the fortress for their own sacrifices.  Blood for the Blood God!

We used the siege rules from the “Blood in the Badlands”.  Devin was the attacker and I was the defender.  I couldn’t hold back his Demon Prince or Warriors when they attacked.  They conquered the objectives fairly easily.  This was largely due to the -1 to hit modifier (mark of Nurgle) that the warriors had.  When you have Beastmen, you need to produce wounds because you sure as heck don’t get many saves! 

One battle was particularly interesting with all the buffs and debuffs.  His warriors had entered a tower section that gave them both Hatred and Frenzy. They had the mark of Nurgle and where buffed by poisonous attacks.  I counter charged them and then had the best magic phase that I have ever rolled.  I hit them with -3 weapon skill (Miasma) and -3 toughness (Wither).  Then hit my unit with +1 strength, +1 Toughness (Wildform) while they where under the effects of +1 strength bonus from the Beastbanner.  I still ended up losing the combat! 

After this my forward position was too weak to hold back the warriors and they captured the gate section of the fortress.   More warriors stormed in.  Unable to recapture the gate, my relief force (showing up outside the castle on turn 2) was unable to get in to give my any chance at victory. 

Thanks for the game Devin! 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on March 17, 2014, 12:03:53 AM
Sounds like fun Rob. I love the Blood in the Badlands seige rules, I will have to let you defend with your Empire sometime against my Skaven.

Sorry I didn't give any comments on my game with Justin yet as I haven't had time at a computer for a week. It was a good game indeed, tactically I made about 3 bad errors, instances where Justin's dice came through to finish a unit off here and there to make me pay for my mistakes. Most notably, my Corsairs fleeing from his Arachnorok, and getting caught, my Cold Ones trying to outmanuever his Big Uns and getting flanked barely, and then just barely putting my Witch Elves too close to his Savage Orcs that made a LONG charge around some impassable terrain(that I thought would slow them down) where my Death Hag was chopped up barely costing me the game. I should have actually charged said Savage Orcs with my Dragon the turn before the have prevented this but I was scared to. :o There was more than a few instances where the dice just agreed with WAAAAAAAGGGHHHH.

Congrats Justin, now hopefully Allan and Don get their game done so we can declare a champion!(I would personally like to play the loser of that game so I can atleast end up with the bronze  :lol)  :thumb-up :1: :)
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on March 19, 2014, 10:37:10 AM
Thanks for the description of your game Maeson.  Always enjoyable to read.

I was informed by Allan and Don that they have tentatively scheduled a game for this Saturday.  This will rap up the semi finals in pretty good time.  Allan, Justin and Don can you start looking ahead to plan out when a good time to get that finals game in!!?  Thanks for working hard to get those finals planned and played. 

Once the finals are played we can start dividing up the prize money.  ComicReaders has once again doubled our league fees with a gift certificate.  As posted on page 1 of the forum the league winner will get $40, and second place with get $30.  There is $10 left in the pool and this will be given away as a random draw to a third league member.  the draw will be made at the store, shortly after the final game has been played.  I just wanted to give a shout out to ComicReaders for there generosity.  And a big thanks for their efforts to support the league by collecting league fees and providing table space in their store. 
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on March 25, 2014, 04:40:16 PM
Did a semi final match take place? Looking forward to knowing my next opponent!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on March 26, 2014, 07:07:30 AM
Allan and I had our game.  Allan's High Elves were waaaayyy more disciplined than mine.  Massacre victory for Allan, he was painted I was not.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on March 26, 2014, 04:36:05 PM
So i'm playing Don for the bronze then! If you want to Don, I know your a busy guy.

Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on March 26, 2014, 07:28:39 PM
I'm definitely up for it.  We'll have to figure out a time.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on March 27, 2014, 06:09:11 AM
Thanks for the games guys, Allan and Justin have to play the final game and the league will rap up.  At this point we know that Allan and Justin will be claiming the ComicReader 1st and 2nd prizes. I believe that I will be heading down to ComicReaders this Friday between 10-12am so that I can have the random draw for the last prize.  If anyone wants to be there for the draw give me a shout, plans are currently tentative.

Update: I couldn't make it down to Readers on Friday. I will meet up with Chad on Monday to make the draw.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on March 31, 2014, 02:19:20 PM
The random draw was made this morning when I meet up with Chad downtown.  And the winner of the $10 gift certificate was Don!  Congratulations to Don and he can pick up his gift certificate at ComicReaders on his earliest convenience.  ComicReaders supplied the gift certificate and I just wanted to thank them again for supporting the league. Thank you, ComicReaders!

Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Gallagher on April 13, 2014, 08:16:22 AM
Allan and I played the final on Saturday. It was a battle for the pass scenario. The winds of magic were on the orcs side as the elven magic was ineffective and the orcs got many key spells off. Specifically a very angry foot of gork killing 18 white lions! It was a victory for me and a great game to play. Thanks Allan.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on April 13, 2014, 08:38:21 PM
As Justin said, we had our final this weekend. Once we rolled up the scenario we placed a few hills and buildings and rolled for sides.  I won the roll off and chose a side that had a narrower front to defend due to a group of houses on my left flank. My thinking was that these structures would help anchor my line. It was a false hope. In fact the buildings ended up providing cover for Justin's arachnarok and giant to run into. I found I couldn't effectively shoot at these two units nor could I set up an effective charge on the them. The buildings allow these two units to get close and then ultimately pick the time to jump out and engage me. I did what I could to delay and redirect with my fast cavalry to some success but in the end the fast cavalry could only do so much.  Justin also pointed out that if he had been forced to deploy on the side with the buildings, he would have ended up running out of space for his units and would have had them tripping over each other.

As problematic was my magic phases failing to produce effective winds of magic. I was unable to use my spells effectively, whereas Justin ended up clipping right along with his magic.  He closed the gap, got off Foot of Gork, stomped the crap out of my White Lions and then proceed to maul me in close combat. Really that was about the sum of it.

We had a good time. We were pretty laid back and while I wanted to win I was fine with the lost. On reflection I realized I got beaten in all three phases of the game from a sub-par army list, to horrible choice of deployment (the really Big Mistake), and being out manoeuvred and out fought.

So that wraps it up ... until next time.  :)
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on April 13, 2014, 08:56:51 PM
I might be wrong but I don't think Monsters can go into buildings....
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on April 14, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
You're right, Maeson they can't. I should have been a bit more specific - there were 3 buildings clumped close together and the 2 brutes where in amongst them (not actually in them) using them to block my line of sight either completely or providing hard cover.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on April 14, 2014, 02:26:06 PM
In that case always take some form of bolt thrower with elves Allan...they come in handy(I am only saying that you because you mentioned you were unhappy with your list).
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Allan Luesink on April 14, 2014, 08:30:19 PM
Actually I had 2 bolt throwers, just they were having a hard time getting shots off due to the buildings in the way.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on April 17, 2014, 06:21:27 AM
Thanks guys for rapping up your game.  Big Congrats to Justin for winning the Warhammer Fantasy Winter 2013/14 League!  I find it quit impressive that Justin managed to roll on through the High Elves and the Dark Elves to win the final.  Allan and Justin can both pick up their prizes at Comic Readers.

I hope that everyone had fun.  I for one got about eight or ten games in but my real joy was getting so much painting done.  I painted up several lords, a monster (ghorgon), several rank n'file, and built and painted a chariot conversion.  I also managed to paint some terrain that includes a Beastmen tent that Maeson had converted and gave to me.  The greatest part of this is that I finally based a whole whack of models that I had painted but never completed their base.  I don't' have exact numbers but this is over 50 additional models.  My army of Beastmen is very near complete.  And now, the most models not painted are the 12 minotaurs.  Again, I hope that everyone had a good time. 

Later,
Robert
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Lareina on April 19, 2014, 08:40:53 AM
Figured since Rob sent me a PM this morning.

ComicReaders will be starting up the Fantasy Escalation league in June. 

I'll post details in May, what you can expect:
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: RobertP on April 19, 2014, 05:38:21 PM
Figured since Rob sent me a PM this morning.

ComicReaders will be starting up the Fantasy Escalation league in June. 

I'll post details in May, what you can expect:
  • ability to change lists month to month, NOT game to game
  • escalation months extended to 4 months: 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500
  • 2500 tournament will be the Top 8 in escalation (this is subject to changed based on player activity, if lots of people are active then I will attempt to make the tournament bigger)
  • prize allocation will be slightly different than what I currently have in place for the 40k league

That sounds awesome Lareina see ya in June!
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: squalie on April 19, 2014, 11:11:54 PM
I'm in for June.
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Lareina on May 02, 2014, 12:06:34 PM
Posted up the sign up thread: http://forums.saskgames.com/index.php?topic=3625.0

FAQ for the league will be added soonish, shouldn't be as long as the 40k one :P
Title: Re: Warhammer Fantasy Ladder League (winter 2013/14)
Post by: Prince of Arnheim on May 02, 2014, 06:24:57 PM
I am in with Dark Elves